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Influence of Solar Multiple on Thermal Energy Storage - CSP
- pgilman
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05 Aug 2022 18:10 #11325
by pgilman
Replied by pgilman on topic Influence of Solar Multiple on Thermal Energy Storage - CSP
Hi Bernardo,
The "actual field thermal output" design variable shown on the Solar Field page depends on the solar field aperture area, which you can control either using Option 1 solar multiple, or Option 2 field aperture on the System Design page.
You might expect the LCOE to decrease as the solar multiple increases at some point where the cost of the larger system outweighs the value of the electricity generated by the system.
Best regards,
Paul.
The "actual field thermal output" design variable shown on the Solar Field page depends on the solar field aperture area, which you can control either using Option 1 solar multiple, or Option 2 field aperture on the System Design page.
You might expect the LCOE to decrease as the solar multiple increases at some point where the cost of the larger system outweighs the value of the electricity generated by the system.
Best regards,
Paul.
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- Bernardo
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06 Aug 2022 03:21 #11327
by Bernardo
Replied by Bernardo on topic Influence of Solar Multiple on Thermal Energy Storage - CSP
Hi Paul.
Yes, but as you can see from my file, in small-scale CSP there is a range of SM and Field Aperture values that doesn't have influence on the solar field aperture... This happens due to the defenition of the number of loops. Is there any possibility to have the value of "Actual field thermal output" available to make a parametric simulation based on it? Can I have access to the programming code and try to change it?
To see that effect on the LCOE value I can't use the "LCOE calculator (FCR Method)", right? In that method the capital costs are fixed, so that there is no point where instalation costs exceed the eletricity prodution and I need to use another method the verify that, is that correct?
Best regards,
Bernardo.
Yes, but as you can see from my file, in small-scale CSP there is a range of SM and Field Aperture values that doesn't have influence on the solar field aperture... This happens due to the defenition of the number of loops. Is there any possibility to have the value of "Actual field thermal output" available to make a parametric simulation based on it? Can I have access to the programming code and try to change it?
To see that effect on the LCOE value I can't use the "LCOE calculator (FCR Method)", right? In that method the capital costs are fixed, so that there is no point where instalation costs exceed the eletricity prodution and I need to use another method the verify that, is that correct?
Best regards,
Bernardo.
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- pgilman
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08 Aug 2022 16:15 #11330
by pgilman
Replied by pgilman on topic Influence of Solar Multiple on Thermal Energy Storage - CSP
Hi Bernardo,
It is not possible to use the "actual field thermal output" variable as an input.
SAM is open source, so you could theoretically build your own version of it, and then make modifications, but I am not sure how you would change that to be an input variable.
Here is where the design field thermal output is assigned:
github.com/NREL/ssc/blob/e4c7c189734c3976edc1c7ff424d2c138a67b9f0/ssc/cmod_csp_trough_eqns.cpp#L270
And, here is how it is calculated:
github.com/NREL/ssc/blob/e4c7c189734c3976edc1c7ff424d2c138a67b9f0/ssc/cmod_csp_common_eqns.cpp#L784
For information about the SAM open source project, see:
github.com/NREL/SAM
It is a large complicated project, so I don't recommend trying to build it unless you have a lot of time and are an experienced C++ programmer.
As for the LCOE Calculator, if you specify the installation costs in $/kW, then the cost will scale with the system nameplate capacity. If you use a cash flow financial model like the Single Owner model, then you can specify the installation cost in $/kW of nameplate capacity, $/m2 of aperture area, and $/kWht of storage capacity.
Best regards,
Paul.
It is not possible to use the "actual field thermal output" variable as an input.
SAM is open source, so you could theoretically build your own version of it, and then make modifications, but I am not sure how you would change that to be an input variable.
Here is where the design field thermal output is assigned:
github.com/NREL/ssc/blob/e4c7c189734c3976edc1c7ff424d2c138a67b9f0/ssc/cmod_csp_trough_eqns.cpp#L270
And, here is how it is calculated:
github.com/NREL/ssc/blob/e4c7c189734c3976edc1c7ff424d2c138a67b9f0/ssc/cmod_csp_common_eqns.cpp#L784
For information about the SAM open source project, see:
github.com/NREL/SAM
It is a large complicated project, so I don't recommend trying to build it unless you have a lot of time and are an experienced C++ programmer.
As for the LCOE Calculator, if you specify the installation costs in $/kW, then the cost will scale with the system nameplate capacity. If you use a cash flow financial model like the Single Owner model, then you can specify the installation cost in $/kW of nameplate capacity, $/m2 of aperture area, and $/kWht of storage capacity.
Best regards,
Paul.
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- Bernardo
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09 Aug 2022 03:15 #11335
by Bernardo
Replied by Bernardo on topic Influence of Solar Multiple on Thermal Energy Storage - CSP
Hi Paul!
Thank you for your help! Unfortunately, I am limited in time, so, I won't be able to change it...
My question was if it was possible to unlock the "actual field thermal output" value in parametric simulation, but it probably have influence in other parameters.
Yes, maybe I could use Single Owner model to calculate the "Estimated total installed cost per net capacity" and then change that value in LCOE Calculator model, and do it for each case to see the real effect in LCOE value.
My project application would be suitable with Residential or Commercial Owner in financial model, but it isn't available in Parabolic Trough Physical Model. Is it for any specific reason?
Best regards,
Bernardo.
Thank you for your help! Unfortunately, I am limited in time, so, I won't be able to change it...
My question was if it was possible to unlock the "actual field thermal output" value in parametric simulation, but it probably have influence in other parameters.
Yes, maybe I could use Single Owner model to calculate the "Estimated total installed cost per net capacity" and then change that value in LCOE Calculator model, and do it for each case to see the real effect in LCOE value.
My project application would be suitable with Residential or Commercial Owner in financial model, but it isn't available in Parabolic Trough Physical Model. Is it for any specific reason?
Best regards,
Bernardo.
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- pgilman
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09 Aug 2022 17:02 #11340
by pgilman
Replied by pgilman on topic Influence of Solar Multiple on Thermal Energy Storage - CSP
Hi Bernardo,
It is not possible to "unlock" the actual field thermal output value to use as input for the parametric simulatoins.
SAM is not designed to model very small parabolic trough systems, which is why you have had so much trouble getting it to work for your analysis. Because SAM's CSP models are designed to model large, utility-scale projects, they are not available with the residential or commercial financial models.
Best regards,
Paul.
It is not possible to "unlock" the actual field thermal output value to use as input for the parametric simulatoins.
SAM is not designed to model very small parabolic trough systems, which is why you have had so much trouble getting it to work for your analysis. Because SAM's CSP models are designed to model large, utility-scale projects, they are not available with the residential or commercial financial models.
Best regards,
Paul.
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- Bernardo
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10 Aug 2022 12:39 #11345
by Bernardo
Replied by Bernardo on topic Influence of Solar Multiple on Thermal Energy Storage - CSP
Hi Paul!
Ok, it is perfectly understood and it makes sense!
Thank you for your help!
Best regards,
Bernardo.
Ok, it is perfectly understood and it makes sense!
Thank you for your help!
Best regards,
Bernardo.
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