- Posts: 1
Modeling DC Optimizers with Multiple MPPT Feature
- Michael La Marca
- Topic Author
Less
More
18 Oct 2018 15:35 #6481
by Michael La Marca
Modeling DC Optimizers with Multiple MPPT Feature was created by Michael La Marca
I would like to model the following residential system that uses a string inverter with DC Optimizers:
Modules: QCells Q.Peak BLK-G4.1 295 (295W Monocrystalline 60 cell module)
Inverter: SolarEdge SE5000H HD Wave Inverter (so could use SE5000H-US [240V] 240V [CEC 2018] in SAM
DC Optimizer: SolarEdge P350 Optimizer
The configuration is:
Array 1: Tilt 20, Azimuth 180 - 16 modules on string all with P350 Optimizer
Array 2: Tilt 30, Azimuth 270 - 6 modules on string all with P350 Optimizer
What is the best way to model this with the upcoming Multiple MPPT modeling features in SAM?
Modules: QCells Q.Peak BLK-G4.1 295 (295W Monocrystalline 60 cell module)
Inverter: SolarEdge SE5000H HD Wave Inverter (so could use SE5000H-US [240V] 240V [CEC 2018] in SAM
DC Optimizer: SolarEdge P350 Optimizer
The configuration is:
Array 1: Tilt 20, Azimuth 180 - 16 modules on string all with P350 Optimizer
Array 2: Tilt 30, Azimuth 270 - 6 modules on string all with P350 Optimizer
What is the best way to model this with the upcoming Multiple MPPT modeling features in SAM?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- pgilman
Less
More
- Posts: 5423
19 Oct 2018 16:02 #6482
by pgilman
Replied by pgilman on topic Modeling DC Optimizers with Multiple MPPT Feature
Dear Michael,
For this configuration Array 1 and Array 2 will operate at different voltages because they have different string lengths and orientations. Is each string of modules/optimizers connected to a separate inverter input, or is there another optimizer or other device between the strings and the inverter?
Best regards,
Paul.
For this configuration Array 1 and Array 2 will operate at different voltages because they have different string lengths and orientations. Is each string of modules/optimizers connected to a separate inverter input, or is there another optimizer or other device between the strings and the inverter?
Best regards,
Paul.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- pgilman
Less
More
- Posts: 5423
23 Oct 2018 09:07 #6483
by pgilman
Replied by pgilman on topic Modeling DC Optimizers with Multiple MPPT Feature
Hi Michael,
In this scenario, you would model the inverter with a single MPPT input, and account for electrical losses from the DC optimizers using the "DC power optimizer loss" option on the Losses page. You would also set the "module mismatch loss" on the Losses input page to zero.
There are some notes and instructions for modeling systems with microinverters in the SAM Help system, at the bottom of the Detailed Photovoltaic Model, Inverter input page's topic.
Best regards,
Paul.
In this scenario, you would model the inverter with a single MPPT input, and account for electrical losses from the DC optimizers using the "DC power optimizer loss" option on the Losses page. You would also set the "module mismatch loss" on the Losses input page to zero.
There are some notes and instructions for modeling systems with microinverters in the SAM Help system, at the bottom of the Detailed Photovoltaic Model, Inverter input page's topic.
Best regards,
Paul.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- winksaville
Less
More
- Posts: 9
06 Jun 2019 00:19 #7440
by winksaville
Replied by winksaville on topic Modeling DC Optimizers with Multiple MPPT Feature
Paul,
I've got a similar model setup for my home, two strings each at different azimuths and tilts and lengths. I'm using SAM 2018.11.11 r4 and I created a "Photovoltaic (detailed)" model that has a SolarEdge SE7600-H inverter and LG365 panels. On the "System Design" page I've got "SubArray 1" with 13 modules and "Subarray 2" with 9 modules and I get the following "warnings" in the large text box of "Electrical Sizing Information":
Subarray 1 string voltage exceeds the inverter maximum rated voltage at reference conditions. Consider using fewer modules per string.
Subarray 2 string voltage is below the inverter minimum MPPT voltage at reference conditions. Consider using more modules per string.
It is was my understanding that a string with one DC optimizer per module provides a constant voltage to the inverter, see this SolarEdge document . Thus I wouldn't expect a warning, although I don't see anyway to tell SAM I'm using optimizers other than in the "Default DC Losses" section on the "Losses" page. I'm very much a neophyte in all of this, so I assume I'm totaly wrong and would appreciate you setting me straight with a short explanation or links to information on the web.
Thanks,
Wink
I've got a similar model setup for my home, two strings each at different azimuths and tilts and lengths. I'm using SAM 2018.11.11 r4 and I created a "Photovoltaic (detailed)" model that has a SolarEdge SE7600-H inverter and LG365 panels. On the "System Design" page I've got "SubArray 1" with 13 modules and "Subarray 2" with 9 modules and I get the following "warnings" in the large text box of "Electrical Sizing Information":
Subarray 1 string voltage exceeds the inverter maximum rated voltage at reference conditions. Consider using fewer modules per string.
Subarray 2 string voltage is below the inverter minimum MPPT voltage at reference conditions. Consider using more modules per string.
It is was my understanding that a string with one DC optimizer per module provides a constant voltage to the inverter, see this SolarEdge document . Thus I wouldn't expect a warning, although I don't see anyway to tell SAM I'm using optimizers other than in the "Default DC Losses" section on the "Losses" page. I'm very much a neophyte in all of this, so I assume I'm totaly wrong and would appreciate you setting me straight with a short explanation or links to information on the web.
Thanks,
Wink
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- pgilman
Less
More
- Posts: 5423
06 Jun 2019 10:27 - 06 Jun 2019 10:27 #7441
by pgilman
Replied by pgilman on topic Modeling DC Optimizers with Multiple MPPT Feature
Hi Wink,
Thank you for sharing the link to the SolarEdge application note for their DC optimizers and fixed-voltage inverters.
SAM does not explicitly model the DC optimizer, and does not model fixed-voltage inverters.
Those warnings are based on the design specifications of the array and inverter -- you can ignore them if you are confident your design will work given the manufacturer specifications.
SAM assumes that each subarray operates at its maximum power point. If the voltage at that point is higher than the inverter maximum MPPT rating, it sets the inverter input voltage to the maximum MPPT rating. A power optimizer would move the subarray operating voltage along the modules' power curve to adjust the power output of the array, but SAM doesn't do that.
In the attached dc-optimizer-fixed-inverter-voltage-tests.sam file, I demonstrate a technique you can use to remove inverter clipping: It involves using the Inverter Datasheet option to create a copy of the inverter with modified MPPT voltage limits so that SAM never clips the operating voltage. The "CEC Inverter Specs" case uses the inverter parameters from the CEC database: See my notes on the Inverter page and on the Losses and Data Tables tabs on the Results page. The "Custom Inverter Specs" case uses modified MPPT limits to avoid clipping: See my notes on the Inverter page.
Thanks,
Paul.
Thank you for sharing the link to the SolarEdge application note for their DC optimizers and fixed-voltage inverters.
SAM does not explicitly model the DC optimizer, and does not model fixed-voltage inverters.
Those warnings are based on the design specifications of the array and inverter -- you can ignore them if you are confident your design will work given the manufacturer specifications.
SAM assumes that each subarray operates at its maximum power point. If the voltage at that point is higher than the inverter maximum MPPT rating, it sets the inverter input voltage to the maximum MPPT rating. A power optimizer would move the subarray operating voltage along the modules' power curve to adjust the power output of the array, but SAM doesn't do that.
In the attached dc-optimizer-fixed-inverter-voltage-tests.sam file, I demonstrate a technique you can use to remove inverter clipping: It involves using the Inverter Datasheet option to create a copy of the inverter with modified MPPT voltage limits so that SAM never clips the operating voltage. The "CEC Inverter Specs" case uses the inverter parameters from the CEC database: See my notes on the Inverter page and on the Losses and Data Tables tabs on the Results page. The "Custom Inverter Specs" case uses modified MPPT limits to avoid clipping: See my notes on the Inverter page.
Thanks,
Paul.
Attachments:
Last edit: 06 Jun 2019 10:27 by pgilman.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- winksaville
Less
More
- Posts: 9
06 Jun 2019 18:27 #7448
by winksaville
Replied by winksaville on topic Modeling DC Optimizers with Multiple MPPT Feature
Txs for the info, a few questions:
On the "Inverter -> Inverter Datasheet" page it looks like the contents are not the contents of the selected inverter from "Inverter -> Inverter CEC Database:"? This means I can't use that to "copy". I did find the "SE7600-H" information in "./libraries/CED Inverter.csv", but that information doesn't match up with what "Load data in file..." in "Inverter -> Inverter Datasheet".
I say this because when I "Save data to file..." from "Inverter -> Inverter Datasheet" I get the following:
When I try to match up that with the information from "./libraries/CEC Inverter.csv" using the third line ("variable names") of that file to interpret the datacontents and I get the following:
These 6 from "Saved data to file..." don't have a match in "./libraries/CEC Inverter.csv":
Here are the "variable names" from the third line matched with the "Saved data to file..." info. The empty right side have no match:
It seems modifing the "./libraries/CEC Inverter.csv" file might work, but even that doesn't provide all the information we see on the "Inverter -> Inverter CEC Database" page. In particular the "Efficiency Curve and Characteristics" has "Number o fMPPT inputs", "CEC weighted efficiency" and "European weighted efficency" but they aren't in "./libraries/CEC Inverter.csv". Nor do I see the "Inverter Temperature Derate Curves" information.
Neither technique seem to have "all" of the information, so I'm not sure what to do, help appreciated.
-- Wink
On the "Inverter -> Inverter Datasheet" page it looks like the contents are not the contents of the selected inverter from "Inverter -> Inverter CEC Database:"? This means I can't use that to "copy". I did find the "SE7600-H" information in "./libraries/CED Inverter.csv", but that information doesn't match up with what "Load data in file..." in "Inverter -> Inverter Datasheet".
I say this because when I "Save data to file..." from "Inverter -> Inverter Datasheet" I get the following:
Code:
inv_ds_data_filename,,Inverter data filename
inv_ds_idcmax,19.5993,Maximum DC current
inv_ds_vdco,400,Nominal DC voltage
inv_ds_vdcmax,480,Maximum DC voltage
inv_ds_pnt,2.2875,Power consumption at night
inv_ds_ac_voltage,240,Nominal AC voltage
inv_ds_num_mppt,1,Number of MPPT inputs
inv_ds_eff_peak_or_nom,96,Manufacturer efficiency
inv_ds_mppt_low,200,Minimum MPPT DC voltage
inv_ds_eff_weighted,97.64,Weighted efficiency
inv_ds_paco,7625,Maximum AC output power
inv_ds_mppt_hi,480,Maximum MPPT DC voltage
inv_ds_eff_type,0,Use weighted or manufacturer efficiency
inv_ds_pso,0,Power consumption during operation
These 6 from "Saved data to file..." don't have a match in "./libraries/CEC Inverter.csv":
Code:
inv_ds_data_filename,,Inverter data filename
inv_ds_idcmax,19.5993,Maximum DC current
inv_ds_num_mppt,1,Number of MPPT inputs
inv_ds_eff_peak_or_nom,96,Manufacturer efficiency
inv_ds_eff_weighted,97.64,Weighted efficiency
inv_ds_eff_type,0,Use weighted or manufacturer efficiency
Code:
inv_snl_ac_voltage inv_ds_ac_voltage,240,Nominal AC voltage
inv_snl_pso inv_ds_pso,0,Power consumption during operation
inv_snl_paco inv_ds_paco,7625,Maximum AC output power
inv_snl_pdco
inv_snl_vdco inv_ds_vdco,400,Nominal DC voltage
inv_snl_c0
inv_snl_c1
inv_snl_c2
inv_snl_c3
inv_snl_pnt inv_ds_pnt,2.2875,Power consumption at night
inv_snl_vdcmax inv_ds_vdcmax,480,Maximum DC voltage
inv_snl_idcmax inv_ds_idcmax,19.5993,Maximum DC current
inv_snl_mppt_low inv_ds_mppt_low,200,Minimum MPPT DC voltage
inv_snl_mppt_hi inv_ds_mppt_hi,480,Maximum MPPT DC voltage
inv_cec_date
inv_cec_type
Neither technique seem to have "all" of the information, so I'm not sure what to do, help appreciated.
-- Wink
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: pgilman